Curse

BeatWolf · May 14, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Item skins do absolutely nothing. What on earth are you trying to prove with that point?

What!!?? If you seen a w/mo with an FDS and one holding a small knife like Gladius. Who would you be more scared of?

Skyy High · May 14, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

The "point" of a PvE character....is that YOU CAN PLAY PVE. That's it. Stop comparing PVE and PVP, because no matter what they give PvP chars, they STILL won't be able to play PvE, which (theoretically) is the reason why people make PvE chars.

If you DON'T like PvE, you soon will not be troubled by making a PvE char; you'll be able to grind to outfit your PvP chars pretty-like instead.

lyra_song · May 14, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatWolf

What!!?? If you seen a w/mo with an FDS and one holding a small knife like Gladius. Who would you be more scared of?

Well from skinwise...id know the FDS has a fiery mod, so obviously i could use Mantra of Flame or Elemental Resistance.

the gladius is more mysterious, could be vamp, could be sundering, could be icy....i dont know.

Skins do matter sometimes.

Before factions, you could kinda guess what builds people had based on the armor they wore, with only Obsidian armor being the only armor that "hid your stats".

So if you see a monk with wanderers or tattoos, you could decide to e-deny or use elemental damage.

There was a tactic to it.

Agyar · May 14, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Well from skinwise...id know the FDS has a fiery mod, so obviously i could use Mantra of Flame or Elemental Resistance.

the gladius is more mysterious, could be vamp, could be sundering, could be icy....i dont know.

Skins do matter sometimes.

Yes, please don't let PvP characters have skins because IF someone uses a FDS skin it will be more easily countered. Wait, what? You bothered pointing this out, when it actually affects 'balance' (oh so minimally) in the opposite direction to what you really need to support your stupid arguements?

You'd think it would be pretty clear these threads aren't getting anywhere after the third or fourth, maybe it's time to just suck it up and accept the fact you're all crying like little babies over something that doesn't really matter.

P.S. What is with the annoying and stupid short story in your profile info lyra_song? I'm sick of having some teenage drama in my face whenever I open one of these threads (which you're bound to post on, as you seem to feature on at least every other page when there's crying to be done).

lyra_song · May 14, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Guys....please read the OP. Please.

Its.not.about.skins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plague

For example, I was playing around recently and wanted to see what would happen when I made a Dervish / Assassin that used Avatar of Lyssa in combination with some Assassin Dagger Mastery skills. I brought out my PvE Dervish, because he's a fine-looking-man. He has a unique weapon and full 15k Primeval armor. (Well, minus the 1.5k shoes that no one ever notices.) I quickly realized I couldn't do this with him because he was a D/Mo, and did not even have D/A "unlocked" for himself. In order to try the build, I would have to farm gold, travel across multiple continents buying skills, possibly capturing elites that I already have on other characters. I can easily grab Melonni and create the build on her first. To me, that's ridiculous. It would take hours to create the build on my Dervish. Actually, it might take days, due to the fact that he would also need new armor and runes to make the most of the build.

-------Snipped---------------

For any developers, hopefully you understand where I'm coming from. Is anything being done to resolve this? Perhaps giving PvE characters the ability to wear PvP-only armor that they can create at a whim in PvP arenas? I know Tomes and such are being introduced to try to ease the pain regarding things like this, but honestly, it's not working very well. I've still only seen a single non-elite Mesmer tome drop in all my time playing Guild Wars, so I can't say that's the golden road to PvE-driven PvP equality.

P.S.
My profile is not your business. If you dont like it. Theres an ignore option on the forum.

Series · May 14, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

For those of you who honestly believe that the ability of PvP characters to obtain PvE skins for weapons will steal away from your experience,I only have one thing to say to you.

QQ MOAR.

Be a REAL man and play both PvE and PvP.

I play both equally and know that this is a horrible change. Maybe if you did you would agree.

It punishes people for PvPing with PvE characters- in other words, it punishes people for putting more time into something. No, you shouldn't get an advantage, but you shouldn't get punished either (you can earn a million reward points on a PvE toon, but your PvE toon can't reap the rewards while a PvP one can. That just doesn't make any sense.).

SotiCoto · May 14, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

How has this b!tch-fest of a thread not been closed yet?

I'm not pointing fingers here.... but there is no way anything good can come of a blatant PvE versus PvP thread like this...

On the whole though... asthetics don't matter squat in PvP. If you're making a PvP character at all, it is because you're too damned impatient to go earn all the necessary gear manually, so why should you be rewarded with the fancy-looking stuff for a complete lack of input? PvP gear does exactly what it is supposed to, and to ask for more in exchange for no input at all is just ridiculous.
This doesn't need any further mentioning.
Things in this respect need only stay where they are..... with PvE'ers putting in the time and effort to earn their fancy armour and weapons.... and PvPers making do with the perfect runes on boring-looking armour.

Mylon · May 14, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quit your whining. It's not going to hurt you in any way if PvP gets to look pretty.

Also, consider the matra you're preaching: I had to work hard, so you should have to work hard too. With that mentality, why bother using machines to harvest grain? I mean, the people before machines came had to do it by hand, so why should these fancy machines make things easy? Take pride in that when you show off your pretty armor in Shing Jea, no one will even consider that the armor had been "given" in PvP.

Nekretaal · May 14, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wtf Its A Monk

In order to unlock these skins PvP players will have to compete in tournaments meaning only those who have at least some level of skill will even have a shot at unlocking the skins.....

If it takes "skill" to "show up" and get the unlocks for free... then these Pvp players have a lot of skill.

Take a look at the tournament NPC in your guild hall. The top 8 finishers all get reward points, and its rare to see even 8 guilds that bothered to compete in the tournament. Heck you could get these reward points, until very recently, for free just by entering the tournament and forfeiting every match.

HawkofStorms · May 14, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Here is the thing, we have NO idea how much these armor skins in PvP will "cost." It might take you weeks to get your PvE character to get 15K luxon armor (or whatever) but if it takes many months longer of grinding on the ATS tournament to get that armor for a PvP character, your arguement is null and void.

Lets at least wait till we can see the relative "costs" of these new PvP skins before we start flipping out about it.

Retribution X · May 14, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylon

Quit your whining. It's not going to hurt you in any way if PvP gets to look pretty.

Also, consider the matra you're preaching: I had to work hard, so you should have to work hard too. With that mentality, why bother using machines to harvest grain? I mean, the people before machines came had to do it by hand, so why should these fancy machines make things easy? Take pride in that when you show off your pretty armor in Shing Jea, no one will even consider that the armor had been "given" in PvP.

Then all my PvE characters should gain Faction and Fame 10x faster than your PvP characters.

Bryant Again · May 14, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Crap, this is gonna explode - if it hasn't already - into another thread about the ATS PvP armor skins. Not liking the looks of things right now...

lyra_song · May 14, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Crap, this is gonna explode - if it hasn't already - into another thread about the ATS PvP armor skins. Not liking the looks of things right now...

I think the problem is a lot of people read the first paragraph of the OP.

Then click reply. They dont read the whole thing or the rest of the thread.

His post isnt really about ATS skins -.o He starts with that and rambles on to his actual point which is about PvE chars and their difficulty of making them fully loaded for PvP.

Narcism · May 14, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution X

Then all my PvE characters should gain Faction and Fame 10x faster than your PvP characters.

great reasoning, great post. have you considered a life as a game designer?

Yichi · May 14, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Yes PVE characters are difficult to load and make completely ready for PVP, but its not as expensive as it used to be. Prices are gradually lowered every day on items that are staple in many builds and situations.

A PVE character is supposed to be difficult to outfit for PVP. The reason being is because the metagame in PVP will always change. If you have the build and equipment for whats currently being run, than you can take your PVE character, if not than thats what PVP only characters were created for. No one forces you to be able to run a PVE only character, or a PVP only character. If youre going to play both PVE and PVP, its beneficial not to fill your account with PVE onyl characters and leave open 1 PVP char slot, incase you dont have what you need to run a certian build or character, than you can go make one to run for the situation really quickly.

MOST pvp players created their chars when PVE characters actually had an advantage in items/armor swapping/multiple equipped weaps over a PVP only character. Some have PVE characters because they want to look different from the standard robot. Some make them so they can use them and expierence them in both aspect of the game. Some have them over pvp characters because they were already made and all it takes is to load a template into them, thus (even though it takes like 2 minutes to make a char and load a template) not having to constantly re-roll characters.

Ec]-[oMaN · May 14, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution X

Then all my PvE characters should gain Faction and Fame 10x faster than your PvP characters.

It's dumb ass comments like this that make threads in the riverside inn mostly a joke.I think you should head over to gwonline.

Orinn · May 14, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Once, a while back, PvE characters had distinct, mechanical advantages over PvP-only characters in PvP. Armor switching was one example, as was certain mods that could not be created for PvP-only characters. And it was imbalanced and unfair.

The PvP players complained, and rightly so. PvP is supposed to be about skill against skill, not about who has the best gear or who can change gear at will. The post Lyra_Song pointed to in her first reply here brought up these issues, and both have since been fixed, in order to provide balance to the PvP environments.

That post ALSO brought up a third imbalance: that PvP-only characters have access to account-wide unlocks for PvP play, while PvE characters do not. This is an imbalance in the system, and should be fixed. I've been a proponent of allowing any character, PvE or PvP, access to ALL account-based unlocks while in a PvP area. Everyone starts from the same base. Any skill that is unlocked for PvP should be available for PvP across all characters on an account.

I'd personally take it a step further and allow PvE characters to actually LEARN skills through Balthazar faction. Non-Elites, at 3k Balth faction, that would be carried over into PvE as a skill unlocked on that character. I wouldn't want to see Elites learnable in this way, though.

As for the skins, it's a side-issue for me. I consider them "nice to have" but not "unbalancing" in any way. While it would be NICE to allow PvE characters to create weapons with perfect mods and stats for PvP use only, most PvE characters can get those easily, even if they don't have rare skins. This IS PvP after all. As long as the weapon used is functional, looks are a very distant second consideration.

The OP wasn't really asking about skins. He was asking why anyone would play a PvE character for PvP. I'm always disappointed to read that people want to make that difficult, or disallow it as an option entirely. Taking a PvE character into a PvP area shouldn't be a frustrating or futile exercise. The option to bring PvE characters into PvP should be EXACTLY as viable as the option of bringing a PvP-only character to the same match.

The current system discourages people from playing PvP with their PvE characters. For a lot of PvE players, this brings out the question, "why bother?" To get more people playing PvP, ArenaNet needs to make it EASIER to break into PvP, and account-based unlocks while in PvP areas is the best thing I can think of to make the transition easier.

Orinn · May 14, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

I know I'm gonna hear about one sentence, so I'll explain it now:

The option to bring PvE characters into PvP should be EXACTLY as viable as the option of bringing a PvP-only character to the same match.

It gets back to player skill, which is what PvP is supposed to be about. Assume a player has 2 characters, both warriors. Character 1 is PvE, character 2 is PvP-only. There is no reason, in my opinion, that the player, whose skill level is constant across characters, should be WORSE playing one character than another, and yet, unless account-based unlocks are implemented for all characters in all PvP areas, the PvE character is at a distinct disadvantage regardless of player skill.

PvP-only characters should not have any advantages over PvE characters, and vice-versa. A player's knowledge, experience, and skill should be the important thing. PvE characters are handicapped by being limited to character-based unlocks, while PvP characters have a much wider selection. Either one should be perfectly viable in an area that is, according to much of the PvP community, supposed to be about "skill against skill."

Narcism · May 14, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

The option to bring PvE characters into PvP should be EXACTLY as viable as the option of bringing a PvP-only character to the same match.

It is.. except.. wait.. PvE characters are better. (I run a pve warrior in gvg)

Quote:

Originally Posted by orinn

It gets back to player skill, which is what PvP is supposed to be about. Assume a player has 2 characters, both warriors. Character 1 is PvE, character 2 is PvP-only. There is no reason, in my opinion, that the player, whose skill level is constant across characters, should be WORSE playing one character than another, and yet, unless account-based unlocks are implemented for all characters in all PvP areas, the PvE character is at a distinct disadvantage regardless of player skill.

Believe it or not, a pve character with the weapons of a pvp character is not at a distinct disadvantage. Observe high end matches, you'll see alot of pve chars.

Quote:

PvP-only characters should not have any advantages over PvE characters, and vice-versa.

And they don't, a well equipped PvE has the advantage.

Quote:

A player's knowledge, experience, and skill should be the important thing. PvE characters are handicapped by being limited to character-based unlocks, while PvP characters have a much wider selection.

pvp characters are very limited without unlocks.

Quote:

Either one should be perfectly viable in an area that is, according to much of the PvP community, supposed to be about "skill against skill."

great, pve characters are still better then pvp characters.
what was this thread about?

lyra_song · May 14, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Narcism, i watch alot of obs and i do see a lot of PvE chars (fow or 15k kurzick warriors with Tyrian longswords, etc.).

But please do enlighten me, as to what is still the distinct advantage of PvE characters over PvP characters. You really didnt give any reasons as to why in your post. It left me confused.

Provided an account is fully UAXed, a PvP char can switch primaries by rerolling... Thats quiet a distinct advantage id say.

The PvE char needs to be built from scratch, even if you have UAX, which is rather time consuming to get all secondary skills + elite skills and weapons and armors, just to match a PvP char who has access to everything with UAX.